I totally agree with you, beside the big cost of everything it’s confusing to me

I’d rather to do all my homework on blackboard or even the same as math classes on webwork.asu.edu

Why physics and chemistry classes are different and cost too much?!!

Thanks for the post

I completely agree as well. It is hard enough to pay for tuition and books each semester without the added stress of budgeting for subscriptions to websites other than Blackboard. I understand that programs like Aceorganic have unique aspects that make them useful, but the instructors should post assignments and homework on Blackboard, and make the extra subscriptions optional as a form of extra help.

Hey man, glad you’re engaged, but it’s kind of obvious why the homework service was not only useful, but necessary! If you’ve done the tutorial or started the homework, you’d know that the ACE Organic website offers a ridiculously simple and useful way of drawing O-Chem molecules. Your alternatives to this website are:
1. Blackboard, where you would get multiple choice questions that are absolutely useless in an organic chemistry class
2. Written homework, which would take two weeks to grade in a class so large.

The point is, if you took some time to really understand the subscription site, you would see how great it is for visualizing and conceptualizing the course material. Worth the 33 bucks in my opinion (four hours of work at McDonalds).

Ok so it looks like you have Pruis for ochem like i do. I think paying extra really is unfair! However, it is just something you wil have to get used to if you are persuing a career in the sciences…I have always had to pay 4 something extra in a science class.

I am in your organic chemistry class and I completely understand where you are going with this. The problem with using Blackboard for our weekly homework is the software to draw organic molecules. I am pretty sure this is where the extra fee comes into play. I had CHM 116 last semester and my professor had weekly homework through Blackboard and I absolutely hated the program. Plus, we didn’t have to make complex molecular designs. I think the fee should be included into the tuition requirements for this class… you know, they like to jack up the price with “class fees”. There aren’t any for O-Chem, but it wouldn’t be such a hard pill to swallow.

Well I understand your frustration; general science courses are really quite costly. However, the allocation of online assignments to privately owned web companies seems to be the most effective way to grade the work of hundreds of chemistry students. Otherwise one professor and less than a handful of TA’s would be responsible for the task. I believe Dr. Pruis has good intentions and is merely trying to add extra incentive to motivate us to actually do homework.

I completely agree.

I don’t necessarily understand all the tools that come with blackboard, but I love using the site; it’s extremely convenient and it’s provided by the university. Course compass is like the exact same thing, but yet we’re paying to use it. It seems so stupid to not use blackboard when it’s free, accredited, and functional.

One thing I was sadly broke over: I would have liked to have an organic lab textbook at a far more reduced price…when new, the lab book costs more than the lecture text! I don’t quite see the need for that…but Dr. Pruis has mentioned that she has placed some copies on reserve in the chem LRC for people who would rather not own a book. I’m not sure how successful they would be in lab without the book though…ochem lab is quite the scary lab. =(

Anyway, if you want to make your money worth a little more, I would just keep the physics and ochem books for myself. I plan on taking more education after graduating from ASU and the textbooks aren’t bad references, especially if you’re pre-med and need to take the MCAT.

Hey, maybe they should provide blackboard training for professors? So many have used the excuse that “they don’t know how to use it” and waste student incomes instead. Very aggravating at times.

Wow. Thanks for all the comments. I appreciate those of you who voiced your opinions.

I think we can (mostly) agree on a few things:

1. Blackboard sucks.
2. Students do not like spending extra money.
3. Being responsible to grade chemistry homework for a class of 100+ students would suck.

@An O-Chem Student - I appreciate you laying out the alternatives. When you put it the way you did, it makes paying the extra money a little more palatable. I have been using the ACE Organic tools, and they are actually pretty cool.

@Dr. Candy Candy Horse Apple Apple - I completely agree with you about outsourcing services to third-party companies that are experts in their field. It makes things so much easier. (Google+ASU, anyone?)

@Lacy - I think that is a great idea to incorporate the cost of these sites into the tuition fee structure somehow. The fee would still be there, but it would be less noticeable to us poor, unsuspecting students.

@May Li - Two thumbs up for suggesting Blackboard training for the faculty. I wonder if this is currently available…does anyone know?

yea, i agree with you. even with the scholarship assistance i recieve, i always come up short when it comes to buying all the required stuff for the class. yes, the whole idea of buying unnecessary stuff gets irritating. Although, didnt pruis say that the ACE program we’re using is also being used by other colleges across the country? did you think of the standard that each college is using when it comes to this subject? i dont know too much about this stuff…some of my points may be off, but this situation were in….paying for extra crap, can be seen as either good or bad. yea its pricey….but whats done is done, just try to do good in the class..
good luck.

Jake,

Thanks for well-wishes. I think you’re right about other colleges using ACEOrganic. It’s actually a pretty cool program. It would be great if we could just get through the class with ACEOrganic and a couple of electronic books. Someday…

totally agreed, alan!

Hey, I’m in your physics class as well. I think its absolute BS that we have to pay over $500/semester hour for a Physics Professor that can’t speak a lick of English. What’s up with THAT?!
However, gathering from the fact that most teachers are poor, I have a conspiracy theory:
What if teachers get some sort of monetary rebate from the website if they post their homework to it and require ALL their students to sign up (and of course pay the $33 fee involved). Maybe a 10% rebate making a class of 135 students @ $33 a peice seem really worth it….you catch my drift?
Maybe that explaination would abstractly answer all our questions about the “why”….

lol christ I hope not

hello yes i agree with the FACT that our books and expenses are outrageous. but even more i feel that our instructors need to be more fluent in english. Physics is a difficult course and having an instructor who doesn’t understand simple questions or articulate answers back seems very unfair to the students. It seems as though ASU isn’t concerned with this issue. why would they? hey at least they’ll get next years tuition for the same class again!

I am a parent paying for these books - lab coats - clickers etc - etc - etc and I beleive these costs are excessive also

@Arthur - I hope your son/daughter doesn’t waste your money. I can’t imagine what the cost of college will be when I have kids…

@Collin & Brad - Thanks for voicing your opinion. I understand your concern with having a difficult time understanding a professor. Believe me, I’ve had some horrible experiences. This is something we all just have to get used to; it’s not happening at ASU. I guess I’m spoiled in our Physics class because I speak German. If you ever want me to translate for you, come on down to the first row and I’ll try to help out.

“…a Physics Professor that can’t speak a lick of English”
“…our instructors need to be more fluent in english. Physics is a difficult course and having an instructor who doesn’t understand simple questions or articulate answers back seems very unfair to the students.”

That seems a little harsh. Compared to some other professors and TA’s I’ve had, Ros actually speaks English very well.

Ob Sie es glauben oder nicht, es gibt viele kluge Leute, die nicht von Amerika sind. Hoffentlich können wir eine neue Kultur zusammen mit Physik in diesem Jahr lernen. Als er uns am ersten Tag erzählt hat, werden wir alle die Sprache der Mathe lernen. Viel Glück zu ihr beiden.

Have u try the online bookstore COCOMARTINI

http://www.cocomartini.com/

I get all my textbooks for this semester from this bookstore. All are brand new and 60%off discount from normal price. See if any help.

hehe ^_^

Hmm - I am not sure if this is allowed… maybe it will stop the debates and comments, but I have a hard time not putting in my 2 cents worth!!!

At first I was not sure I wanted to read what everyone was saying about the books, my class, and maybe even me - I really am very sensitive

However, I have found many of your comments quite interesting and useful. Here is (in no particular order) my comments

1. I agree that books are very expensive. The publishers will publish a new version every 2-4 years and make the old ones out of print, forcing us to switch to new versions, which forces students to buy new books instead of used books. It is how they make money. And law of supply and demand forces them to assign high prices to the books because really they are not going to sell that many (face it, an O-Chem book will not fly off the shelves like a John Grisham best seller!)

2. If you bought the CHM 233 book new then it was packaged with One Key / ACEorganic for free (really, this is true, check out the prentice hall website to see that you really did get that for free with the book and solutions manual). However, if you bought the book used or the e-version this was not an option.

3. ACEorganic is really cool (way better than any possible boring MC questions I could put on blackboard). Once we get further into the semester I think that you will “enjoy” doing your homework (well, at least not hate it!!!)

4. There are blackboard training programs for faculty. However, many faculty choose to not use them. I personally like blackboard because it is very east for me to use…

5. CPS - once you buy the clicker and register it is “free” for the rest of your classes. So after the first semester you do not need to pay again.

6. Textbooks have always been expensive, esp for college classes. Back when I was in undergrad (yikes, I sound old) I remember that each semester I would spen anywhere from $300 - $600 for textbooks. Keeping in mind inflation over the past 12 or more years, that was comparable or more than what you are spending now. So unfortunately it is just how it goes. I actually think there is much more going on now to lower the cost for students by having e-books and other online options.

wow - I did not mean to write a book! sorry for being long winded (hmm, those of you who see me at 11:40 MWF already know that!!!)

CP

Dr. Pruis,

Thank you very much for stopping by and adding some comments. I was apprehensive about including my instructors on the email, but now I am glad I did. Unfortunately I fall into the category of students who purchased the e-version of the book. Grrr…

#3 - I have been in the first homework assignment for the past couple hours on ACEorganic. You are right that it’s a great program. I also like the fact that I can try each problem multiple times as I’m learning.

see you Friday…

College is expensive. We are lucky to be going to a relatively good university that is “cheap”! Look at other school’s tuition.

I try to get most if not all of my books and supplies off websites rather than ASU bookstore. (just google whatever you need)

Many times I only end up spending half the cost of the bookstore. And of course in good faith I sell the books at $ I bought it for or cheaper on half.com trying to keep the cost down for others.

I don’t support CPS, other web assignments, etc. The “extra” costs are VERY excessive but if you want your grade (doesn’t that seem as if you are buying your grade?…)

Kristina,

I always start out with the best intentions to use alternative sources for my books, but I usually end up procrastinating too long and then I run out of time.

I have a whole stack of books that I am about to try and sell at Half.com. Have you had much success selling your stuff there?

Ok seriously, text books and other necessities are expensive, but in the grand scheme of everything, they are not the real problem. The real problem is tuition in the first place. If you are going to whine about book and/or study material costs, first examine how much an individual must pay to attend asu without a scholarship, never the less if you are from out of state. Paying $8500 a semester is the real ridiculous thing, not the book prices.